Jesus Must Have Changed His Mind

Jesus crown of thorns - West Pier BrightonHere I sit, my Bible in hand, trying to find that part where Jesus changed his mind. I look through Matthew.  Nothing. I look through Mark. Nada. I search through Luke, still nothing. I get past John and, surprisingly, I still find nothing.

Given what I see from those who say they worship Jesus as “God”, I figure somewhere Jesus must have changed his mind. The book I was taught while suffering through Catholic school must have miraculously changed at some point since those lessons. I wouldn’t be surprised, after all the God of the book did all kinds of wild stuff, so certainly changing the entire text on which His superstition, er, I mean religion was based certainly could be done.

Yet I can’t find a single edit.

I can’t see where Jesus suddenly turned his back on the poor, calling them “lazy freeloaders” along the way. I can’t find that notion where the poor were put on notice that they were “on their own” to either starve or beg for mercy to some church as a part of their poverty. I can’t see where Jesus said that the wealthy were deserved of special treatment or any kind of hero-worship.

Nope, my book still says the wealthy will have a hard time getting into heaven. My book still has Jesus eating with the most hated of his society. My book still has him working to feed the poor without conditions.  Hhhhhmmmm.

I can’t find where Jesus is pro-death penalty in my Bible. I can’t find where he condemns people to death for violating the laws of the land. I’m sure it has to be in there somewhere because, after all, the Christian part of our society seems strongly in favor of the death penalty. I must have to reread it all over again because certainly those who follow Jesus as Lord and Master could not be for something he was not.

I also can’t seem to find that part where Jesus seeks wealth. I can’t find the capitalist Jesus every conservative Christian seems to know. I look for the man named Jesus who worships money and puts nearly everything behind amassing wealth and power. I can’t find that Jesus though and I can’t find where he even held a job let alone created a company. I am fairly certain that the Americanized conservative Jesus would have had one of the twelve carrying a cash register while another of the twelve carried a sandwich board stating the prices for being healed. I think it’s also fair to say that Americanized conservative Jesus would have had a 501-3(c) as well as a Political Action Committee all at his disposal.

I’m also fairly certain the Americanized conservative Jesus also only raised the dead of the highest bidder. That’s the capitalist way!

Not to get on a tangent, but if the afterlife Jesus described was so wonderful, why did he raise people from the dead anyway? If I had died, was in heaven, and then was brought back by Jesus, I’d get off my stone slab and beat him with my shoe.  I know, heaven didn’t exist until Jesus died…or something like that. Uh huh.

Ok, back to the gist of my thought.

I also can’t find where Jesus felt the need to have a weapon to protect himself. I do realize that anyone who can walk on water probably would have no need for a sword, but even when he could have used one he did not and commanded others NOT to use theirs. Certainly the Bible has undergone a Divine edit there. I’m sure it reads,

Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. 51 With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear.

52 “Give me that thing,” Jesus said to him, “we must defend ourselves against this terror.” And with that Jesus killed everyone save those who agreed with him, and the world was safe for capitalism and democracy.

The fact check is all done and, well, mine still says “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.” No caveats, no conditions, just a simple statement of fact.

Yet, it seems conservative Christian America is addicted to our modern version of the sword. This conservative Christian America not only suffers from this addiction, and would not only draw the sword, but would also use it with reckless abandon despite the fact that God (or Jesus) did not sneak into our homes in the middle of the night and change the texts to be more agreeable their version of America. Of course he may have feared being shot.

Then there is our “War on Terror.” Our “War on Drugs”. Our imprisonment of more people by percentage of our population than any other industrialized country. Sexual repression and oppression. Guantanamo Bay. This isn’t even going back into our history of racial persecution, slavery, gender oppression, and slaughter of indigenous people.

It leads me to wonder what version of Christianity conservatives suggest we were founded on; the one Jesus lived in the story or the one they have created in their heads as their own. That’s an easy answer because the Jesus I have read about is nothing like the Christian conservatives of America. That is unless the only Bible not changed to fit their model of Christianity is the one I am reading.

I suggest we end this pretentious fallacy that this nation was founded on any version of real Christianity.

Real Christianity doesn’t exist, much like Jesus didn’t exist. No one has ever raised a person from the dead after days on a slab. No one has ever reattached a limb without surgery.

The greatest proof I have found that Jesus did not exist is Christianity itself. The greatest proof I have found that the God of the Bible doesn’t exist comes from those who say they believe in Him.

If Christians really believed Jesus existed and that everything in the Bible existed and was truth, they would have no need to defend their life and property. Gun sales would plummet because they are all on their way to that wonderful place in the sky Jesus talked about. Why defend a life here when something like heaven awaits you out there? Pass the wine and bread, I need a good buzz.

If Christians really believed they would not be so different than the Jesus in the Bible. They’d all be loving those liberal Arab hippies who are like Jesus. They’d all be washing the feet of others. They’d be eating with Democrats and hugging crack addicts. They’d be rushing into prisons to save the condemned, and they’d be loving the hell out of “terrorists”. There would be no cheers over drone strikes. There’d be no joy over the killing of anyone, regardless of their sins.

There would be, however, an awful lot of bruised cheeks, both left and right side.

After all, do any of us know sin-free Christians? If not, how can one of them throw the stone as Jesus asked? Ah, the devil is in the details, and the proverbial Jesus seems to have given conservative American Christians an impossible example to follow. Either that or Jesus certainly changed his mind about everything he taught since ascending into that board room in the sky. Whichever, it seems that despite some notable exceptions in history Christians have given up being like Jesus and have rather sought to make Jesus more like them.

What clearer failure can a religion endure than when the Master it is founded on becomes as irrelevant as a bumper sticker?

What surer failure can a religion find than when the teachings of its founder are less important than the wood on which it is believed he died?

I don’t mind if someone holds on to a rosary believing it will get them to some place that their actions could not. I don’t care if someone believes unreasonably that the world is only 9,000 years old. What I do mind is open hypocrisy on which we have to endure lecture after lecture and statement after statement from these misguided people who who I am is decided by what they believe. That’s when I mind.

So, stop with the nonsense that America is a Christian nation. Stop telling me how wrong gay marriage is and about how homosexuality is a sin. Stop telling me about the value of life when discussing abortion while you are hoping for the death of a convicted criminal. Stop with the clarifying statements that somehow reconcile your anti-Christ-like thoughts with the teachings of the story you pretend to believe in.

Harsh words, I know, but necessary to me nonetheless.  I don’t apologize to those who find these words offensive unless they can prove me wrong. I welcome the debate, but please don’t start it out with how the earth was created in less than a week and how each and every woman I know owes me something for my rib. Instead, show me something tangible that doesn’t take a lifetime of conditioning and a lack of intelligence to believe. Do that, and I will apologize wholeheartedly and beg for forgiveness.

 

photo by: Leonski

15 thoughts on “Jesus Must Have Changed His Mind”

  1. You might enjoy, indeed be encouraged by, the writings of Richard Rohr, a Franciscan friar living in Albuquerque. I know he would appreciate and agree with much of what you are saying.

    1. I happen to have a great deal of respect for most Franciscans. In fact, St. Francis is one of my favorite religious and spiritual figures, and I find him a fascinating figure in both history and spirituality.

      I’ll check out Richard Rohr. Was he featured in Zeitgeist (the movie)?

  2. I have been receiving Rohr’s daily motivations for about a year and NOTHING has spoken to my heart and soul more clearly than his words have. I also read his book Falling Upward….recommend!!

    Tom, I am a Christian teaching meditation in prison trying to model my life after the Jesus I follow. Thank you for your honesty 😉

    1. Thanks Anita. I see the story of Jesus in the new Testament much like I see the story of Krishna in the Gita. Both stories are complete with absolute wisdom while being riddled with human imperfection. One modeling his (or her) life after either example is certainly not a horrible thing, particularly if one realizes that either story is written in their own heart, easily read through the practice of meditation.

      I can’t wait to read some of his works. Thank you for your recommendation. 🙂

  3. I find it interesting that this is both a political post and a religious one. I also find it interesting that you say real Christianity does not exist. In a way that is true. Christ said “Matthew 5:48 ‘Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.'” The trick of that is that He was the only one that has been perfect. He expects us to try our best and even after we have done everything we can do…we still need His help. This is not a world of saints. This is a world of brothers and sisters all striving to choose good over evil. We are all struggling to be better. None of us meets the measure he set but we continue.
    One may struggle with drugs, one may struggle with lying, one may struggle with adultery. It is not a competition. We are not trying to out-do our neighbor. Sometimes that message is lost. We are simply trying to help others with our strengths and accept help from others for our weaknesses. The biggest struggle for some Christians is to remember we are no better than anyone else. Humility is simply remembering that fact. We can do nothing to be superior to another and conversely we can do nothing to be less than another.
    Was the United States founded on Christianity? I believe so. That Christianity was still in an infant, rebellious state. Look at the world since that time. The United States has done more good for the world in the last 200 years than any country has ever done. Sadly there have been abuses by our great nation. I would like to think most are a result of neglect. I am not naïve enough to not see issue with corporations that have taken advantage of other countries and peoples. That is greed. That is not America though. It is a company. The government has not always corrected those issues until there was a public outcry. But that public outcry has almost always resulted in a change for better.
    Have problems persisted? Sure! Do bad things still happen? Yes! What is my point? Walk outside of America and you will see ten times the abuse of those countries governments on their own people. Afghanistan, China, North Korea and India tested weapons on their own people. What is the difference from them and America? We vote to make that difference. We create checks and balances to fix the bad and continue the good. What country is anywhere near ours? What religion has supported and protected so much growth and good? Remember our country has only been around for a few hundred years. China and their religion should lead the world since they have been around the longest right? Or is that India? Oh that’s right, Africa is the cradle of civilization. Why don’t we look to them for truth and leadership? Because they weren’t founded on Christianity. Oops I just won the debate.

    1. Vince, we have known each other for 37, almost 38 years, and if one thing’s for certain it is that we have fundamentally different views on spirituality and religion. We also have fundamentally different reasons for our views, yours born of birthright and archetypical condition, mine is born from experience and a relationship with the Universe forged by that experience. I find religions to be spiritual plagiarism for the most part, since you cede authorship of your own experience to someone else, and you live through the eyes of someone who may, or may not, have been a lunatic.

      You also live in a fear, guilt, and duality ridden world that I care not to dwell in most of the time. You see separation where I see oneness, you see fear where I seek love, and you feel guilt where I feel acceptance. This is a fundamental truth and is important to understand, since I am free to accept my experience and understandings as they are created, where you are chained to yours as a result of your conditioning from birth. You are always free to break those chains, but that would take a tremendous amount of intestinal fortitude and a willingness to accept your experience outside of the box you have chosen to live in.

      You don’t see it that way, but a veal does not realize it is in a box either since it was born into it. Allow it time in the pasture, and it will finally know that box. If it seeks comfort in its conditioning, it will return to that box. If it doesn’t, it will choose the open fields.

      It is important to recognize our differences as I reply to your comment, even though I believe that beyond these journeys of the mind we have no differences. We will both end up at the same place just as we are in the same place now.

      There is no such thing as imperfection outside of your mind Vince. Everything is perfect, and everything is exactly as it needs to be. Once you accept that, you cease living in fear not only of imperfection, but also of the consequences you are taught will occur if you even have a shred of “imperfection”. You don’t live your life in fear of retribution, you live it in line with your true nature and find a unique kind of happiness.

      I am perfect Vince. So are you. That knowledge is empowering to say the least (probably too much power for your religious leaders to bestow upon a lowly man such as you…)

      I don’t choose good over evil, I choose my higher calling…period. I reject very little in my life Vince…reject only empowers that which you are trying to reject…rejection gives it strength and life. That’s a byproduct of letting go of the guilt-control mechanism religions employ. I embrace those things I want in my life…I never reject those things I don’t. That works because a cup can only hold so much, so if I fill it with the nectar I wish to drink there is no room for that which I don’t.

      Again, that is empowering, and can show you the true strength that is you. That’s one reason your religions (except Buddhism perhaps) don’t teach you that. They need to control you, so they create conditions by which you need them for something. Once you feel the power of who you are, you no longer need them, their rituals, or their beliefs to define your life or how you live. That scares religions because without you and your subjugation they have no power.

      Because of my unique relationship with the Universe, I no longer struggle to meet a measure others have created, and I no longer struggle much to “be better.” There is much peace there once you find it.

      Those human conditions you mentions…adultery, dishonesty, addiction…they are all choices that allow us a certain experience we need to have. The struggle comes from the belief that they are “bad” and that we “aren’t meeting measure” all created to illicit fear and guilt. Now, we can all see the results of these choices you mention, divorce, suffering, a lack of health, but spiritually speaking those are not “bad” choices, they are simply choices that get us to a certain experience. We are always free to make other choices if we so choose, and we usually make that other choice when we find that the results no longer meet the experience we truly want to have. We don’t need your version of “God” or your religion to either make the choice or make the change. If we use your version of “God” and your religion to make the choice or the change, we aren’t doing it for ourselves, we are doing it for someone else. In that truth we cease to realize who and what we are as Beings having a human experience.

      And that is why religions fail. They don’t teach you to fish, they give you the fish. An example of this was when you said previously that if your church changed its mind on gay marriage you would to. You weren’t answering to YOUR calling, you were answering to someone else’s. You weren’t fishing, you were being fed.

      The United States was not founded on Christianity Vince. In no way, shape, or form is our system of governance anything like what Jesus taught in his story. In very few ways is our society a reflection of the vision Jesus talked about in the story. I believe that Christians often suggest this nonsense in order to provide validity and some semblance of power to their religion. In truth, I’d suggest that if those who truly follow the example, teachings, and lifestyle of the character we call Jesus they’d find our government, our society, and our actions in the world abhorrent. We so seldom express as a nation the ideals of Jesus in the New Testament.

      You said something interesting, that in 200 years we have done more “good” for the world than any other nation. I’d like you to prove that.

      You also asked what religion has support so much good and growth. I’ll tell you which. Buddhism. Not only is Buddhism older than Christianity by about 500 years, it doesn’t have the brutal and murderous history of Christianity. It doesn’t promote prejudice like Christianity still does. It, to me, is the purest and most honest of all religions. If there was any one religion I would subscribe to, Buddhism would be it. Peace. Happiness. Love. What a better way to build a life!

      No one saves us but ourselves.
      No one can And no one may.
      We ourselves must walk the path.~ The Buddha ~

      One final thing. You mentioned some nations of the world and then suggested that they should “lead” the world because of their longevity. I’d say it depends on how you measure “leading”. I would certainly say spiritually India is a leader. Most Indians don’t care about money (which is shocking to most Americans absorbed by it), and some don’t see their poverty as a bad thing. Remember how Jesus measured things Vince. Remember what he taught, and then tell me if America is truly leading anything or anyone (without force) in this world given the measure of your Lord and Master. I’d suggest we are not only failing to lead, but will end as a failed society because we simply had no sense of self even at the must individual of levels.

      I have to go…got Sunday plans with friends and my kids. I enjoy our dialog, and hope it continues. I hope you are recovered, and that you are in better health!

      Peace.

  4. The premise that someone feels fear from religion is a misguided Jewish and Catholic view on what God really teaches. The Gospel takes away fear. What did Jesus fear? John 4:18 “perfect love casteth out fear” We all live and learn from our experiences. My experiences have taught me to love my fellow man. To “Love my Neighbor”. How has your experience taught you better? Your statement makes no sense and stand itself on it’s on head. How did I live in a box? Your experience taught you that Catholicism is wrong. I told you that 30 years ago. Now you are grasping at another religion that has no truth or substance. I have not changed in the last 38 years because I was lucky enough to be born into truth.

    Why would anyone think adultery can bring peace? How has adultery healed the world? How has adultery helped anyone? To think that anyone needs to experience adultery is laughable.If that is what you are being taught you might want to rethink the logic. Should everyone experience rape and murder to become enlightened? No peace can ever come from such behavior and to say so means you really do not understand peace.

    NO ONE should ever have to experience those things. No one’s life has ever improved from those things. However, their lives may have improved if they used true principles to recover from those evils. Forgiveness is powerful for the victim and the offender. It can heal both.

    That is a teaching Christ taught. Christianity does not promote prejudice. It heals it. The incorrect teachings promoted as Christianity do all sorts of harm. Christianity started at Adam and Eve. Their experience was the beginning of Christianity on this Earth. Any other religion is a simple mockery of truth that was corrupted over time. Christ came in the meridian of time to reestablish His truth. That was quickly removed again from the Earth in the great apostasy that began as Christ’s apostles were slaughtered. His Church was reestablished again in these last days. The inquisition was a man-made war on Christianity. Any true Christian would abhor it’s purpose and question it’s leaders.

    None of your statements would hurt a Christian. They know better. They would simply be saddened by your misunderstandings of what Christianity means.

    As far as America is concerned…

    NO nation has done more for peace in the history of the world. Name a country that sent more aid to other countries during World War 1 OR 2. Name a country that sends more aid to the world? Name a country that has been around longer than the United States. Why were they not more able to support and help? Why didn’t buddhist countries do more? Freedom. America does so well because we are free. America supports so much because we are free. No other country can because they are not free. Their countries can’t help. You can’t lift someone else up unless you are on higher ground. Why can’t BUddhists or HInduists or Islamists help? Because they do not have the truth. They have bits of it….scattered truths. Ye shall know them by their fruits.

    Name a country that has done more to free others from tyranny?

    1. Vince, I can’t at this time debate this with you. I may at a different time, but right now I see no value in continuing this ongoing debate with you. It’s a scripted debate that must be taught in Sunday school, and right now I just don’t have the will to deal with it.

      We’ll forget history, and we’ll agree to disagree.

      Peace.

  5. Vince…

    “The premise that someone feels fear from religion is a misguided Jewish and Catholic view on what God really teaches.”

    I agree with this, but it is part of nearly every religion, including your version of Christianity. You do know the name David Twede, don’t you?

    You do remember that infamous speech from Brigham Young:

    “There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.

    “I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them….

    “And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further;

    I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.

    “It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit…. There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man.” (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church’s Deseret News, 1856, page 235)

    You do know the Mormon practice of Blood Atonement, don’t you?

    So, it would seem fear from religion (or of religion) isn’t just a Catholic or Jewish concept Vince. I could give you a few more examples of Mormon fear mongering if you’d like.

    It all ties into the ongoing fact that the message of Jesus isn’t followed by Christians for the most part that is, of course, unless Jesus came and changed things when were weren’t looking. Oh wait, he did…we call it the “Book of Mormon”, or the “New Testament” or the “Bible”. All equally ridiculous versions of the Divine word already written within us ignored for human words written beyond our hearts.

    1. What you have described is not a fear of religion. It is a fear of evil. Your examples are of people that have feared that they have done something wrong and feel guilt for that wrong doing. How would you feel if you killed someones child? Are you telling me you would feel at peace with that scenario? That was an experience that they and their parents were supposed to appreciate? That death would help them? They would enjoy the sweet ecstasy of the pain?

      If that is what you believe then we have drifted far in our life’s journeys. I believe that an everlasting God has made it possible for us to receive forgiveness in this life and the next. He gave His Son as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind. Faith in Christ frees us from fear. Understanding His Gospel frees us from the misunderstandings of man. Man has changed the meaning of Christ’s words. The Torah, the Bible have been changed by evil men. How many versions are there? The Book of Mormon is a New Testament of those truths Christ taught. It doesn’t change Christ’s teachings, it testifies of them. It was prepared in Christ’s day for a time when Christ’s teaching would be lost from the world because of evil. Do I fear evil, Satan, the devil? No. He only has power over me if I give it to him. Do I fear Christ? No. I know where to look to be saved. I look to Christ.

      I don’t fear God. I love and trust Him. He is our Father. He is always watching over us. He loves us.

      This all of course makes sense to me but I see were you may disagree. But my point is that I do not fear religion. I don’t fear the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The more I learn of Him the less fear I have of anything. Of anything.

      1. So a man who comes out against your Church who faces fear of threats, intimidation and excommunication is not fearing your religion, but rather evil? So those within your church who have threatened him are evil?

        Vince, it is my opinion that religion is to be feared because of the mental state some who subscribe to it must be in. When the only reason you, one of my oldest and dearest friends, seek to oppress a group of people in our society IS YOUR RELIGION and its dogma, then it is something to fear.

        Remember, you stated that you would change your mind on gay marriage if your church did. I assume others like you changed their minds about African Americans in the late 70’s because your religion changed its mind. You don’t think that is something to fear?

        Anything, and I mean anything, that can control the mind like religion can MUST be feared.

        1. Threats and intimidation are not a trait of the Church or disciples of Christ. Excommunication is not something to be feared by Church members but is something used to help individuals. I am sure other religions see it as a bad thing. It has been used by men as a bad thing. Men that don’t understand the gospel.

          You choose to listen to the perspective of the man that left the Church. Did you find out what the Church really said or did you take his side only? Did you study and investigate with the same zeal the Church’s opinion? I expect you to study both sides before you reach an opinion. Can you tell me you in truth that you did?

          You used a phrase, “some who subscribe to it.” That seems to be your biggest problem with religion. You ascribe the actions of those who have fallen from the Gospel as the actions of the Gospel. The Judas. The one out of 12 that turns their back on the truth and begin to do evil. Who killed who? Did Christ’s disciples kill the Romans? Did Christ betray anyone? The Inquisition which you say is the evil of the Church happened when I say the Church was not even on the Earth nor was their anyone on the Earth with the priesthood of God at that time. Did Christ slice away a man’s ear? Or did Christ take an action of His disciple as a teaching moment?

          So again I disagree. Religion should not be feared but the lack of religion. More specifically the lack of truth.
          You are correct. I would follow God. I know Him to be a just God. A true God. Our Heavenly Father.

          He said not to have homosexual relations. That is enough for me. Does that make me blind? Does that make me foolish? Does that make my mental state seem faulty?

          I equate it to a parent that tells their children to not touch the oven. One does, one doesn’t. Which child gets burned. The one that didn’t listen to their parent?

          Our Heavenly Father said not to have homosexual relations. He said to be true to our marriage vows. Who gets burned? I don’t. I don’t have AIDS nor do I have the remotest chance of catching it. I hold sacred the importance of marriage and that wisdom protects me and my wife and our children. My marriage is not ripped apart by infidelity. My children are not raised without the wisdom of a father and the nurture of a mother. They are raised with a balance. A balance no homosexual couple can understand let alone teach.

          A couple that learns from each mate. A couple that did not take the easy path of lust. The easy path of a partnership with someone that feels the same way because they grew up with the same problems. Husband and wife learn from their partners things that their own gender can not teach.

          I pity homosexuals and their limitation of their own experience. Like I pity the child that touches the hot oven. They chose poorly and are rewarded with a lack. They do not understand love nor it’s purpose. Nor do they ever have a chance to enjoy the true bliss of parenthood.and family.

          I am blessed for listening to a loving parent and His truth. I am not limited by the lies of the world. I am not fooled by…”Eat, drink and be merry”. I don’t rejoice in the sad plight of those that choose evil. I try to help them. Help them to find true happiness through the Savior of all mankind. I am not limited. My choices free me. I choose not to do drugs. I choose not to alter my experience. I choose faith. I choose honor. I choose truth. I choose joy. I choose to protect. I choose to heal. I choose to teach. I choose to share.

          I choose true happiness. I hope I can help.

      2. “Threats and intimidation are not a trait of the Church or disciples of Christ”

        Untrue…it has been just that, which is the reason for this post.

        “You choose to listen to the perspective of the man that left the Church. Did you find out what the Church really said or did you take his side only?”

        I don’t take anyone’s side Vince. I just know that a man was a Mormon one day (he even was the editor of their blog or something) and the next was not. This was, of course, after he opposed the Church’s opinion. Strange coincidence? Maybe, but I seem to err on the side of religious intimidation given religion’s stellar (sarcasm) history.

        “Do I fear evil, Satan, the devil? No. He only has power over me if I give it to him. Do I fear Christ? No. I know where to look to be saved. I look to Christ.”

        I appreciate that you do. I am happy for you. But please understand that some of us don’t need what we consider a fairy tale to find such salvation or meaning. It’s all good IF IT IS USED FOR GOOD (like not oppressing people based on race, gender, or sexuality.)

        “Our Heavenly Father said not to have homosexual relations.”

        No, our Heavenly Father created homosexuals. A man somewhere wrote not to have homosexual relations. I’d rather trust the Universe’s creation than what some man wrote.

        “I pity homosexuals and their limitation of their own experience.”

        As they may pity you for your narrow mind and secular perspective. I’d err on the side of free will, and I’d be equally careful not to use “pity” in this discussion.

        “Nor do they ever have a chance to enjoy the true bliss of parenthood.and family.”

        Untrue…I know a couple who have children and are excellent parents. See…I can prove you wrong on this one (and I feel you should feel ashamed of your narrow viewpoint).

        “I am blessed for listening to a loving parent and His truth.”

        Actually you are reading a book written by some man at some time and pretending to be hearing something that does not exist in the way you are pretending it does. Sorry bud, but that’s the truth as I see it (and God told me to tell you that).

        “I choose true happiness. I hope I can help.”

        I have a sinking feeling that you may have no idea what true happiness is Vince. I know you to be a generally happy guy, but sometimes I wonder if that smile is just window dressing to mask your true feelings. A soul like yours, constrained to the prison of religion, cannot fully develop as be “happy”. Still, if it chooses to live in such bondage it must have desired the experience. So…

        1. This is the loving caring banter I want to have in person. Sadly until I get my butt on Skype this is as good as it gets. I truly appreciate your candor and openness about your beliefs and feelings. I is good to have frank discussions about these important topics.

          True happiness is appreciating the thunder and the rain. True happiness is driving to work and seeing the sun peeking through the mountains and stopping to appreciate it’s beauty. It is the smile on a child’s face. And the peace that comes as the Spirit whispers to you in each moment that you are of infinite value and worth.

          Peace Brother.

          1. You know, my friend, I actually find appreciation of the rain and thunder FROM my happiness, not the other way around. I find joy in all things natural even if I am much more restrained in my joy over the ideas, beliefs and superstitions of man.

            Thunder cannot be changed by a man’s mind, but what that thunder means can.

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